Topic ID #16501 - posted 2/18/2012 3:39 AM

Some more archaeology job stats.



DougRM

I gathered a bunch of data and ran the numbers for academic archaeologists, you can see the different break downs here-

Assistant Professor

Associate Professor

Professor

Over all numbers

Probably not as bleak as most graduates think it is but definitely worse than what most aspiring PhDs think it is. 




Post ID#19321 - replied 2/18/2012 7:17 AM



rkeyo

Moderator
What should be noted by any who seriously wish to pursue a career in academia is that the total number of teaching jobs in this study, which seems fairly comprehensive, is only 1600. Given that there are thousands of graduates in archaeology every year, you need to realize early on that you are going you have to work you butt off to rise above your competition.

Post ID#19322 - replied 2/18/2012 9:07 AM



DougRM

I hope that is what people take away from it but it seems like most PhD's all kind of have that same sort of outlook- "I will be the one who gets lucky". Rarely do I see anyone really trying to make that "luck" happen through a thought out plan.

Post ID#19323 - replied 2/18/2012 5:11 PM



Dwarmour

what always picks my brain from seeing these statistics is what the "unlucky" people are now doing.  Is it the case that everyone feels lucky or is it that most people continue with their educations because they don't know what to do?  Are the ones acquiring the jobs the ones busting their asses or is it really just the case of getting lucky?

As a person who is breaking my back to travel over 200 miles just to attend graduate school and applying for positions all over the place, these statistics are very disheartening.  What I would be interested in seeing is what these lucky, chosen few are doing and there backgrounds/qualifications that lead them to be "picked."

Is it really the case that all masters and phd anthro students are truly dedicated to this field or do they just have no clue as to what to do with their lives?  

Post ID#19324 - replied 2/19/2012 5:05 AM



DougRM

I wondered about this for all archaeologists. Probably 60,000+ people with arch degrees in the last 40 years and not all of them could/were archaeologists. Especially, among field techs if you don't move up you move out, if you even got in. A study of those who didn't "make" it would be incredibly interesting.

On the academic route I think a real barrier to employment and the 'best" person for the job is the degree of specialty. Most job postings say something like looking for someone with eastwoodlands experience and ceramics. Yes, 150 graduate each year but how many have experience in eastwoodlands and ceramics?  I have written about this- Why you don't have to be faster than the bear, just faster than your slowest friend

Though I can probably look at assistant profs to see number of publications, teaching etc. This would take me a very long time though so it will be a few months before I can put up anything on it.


Post ID#19325 - replied 2/19/2012 5:32 AM



McBain05

Heh.  I think its more luck.  At least from my experience.

I applied to a Ph.D. programs 43 times after recieving my Masters degree over the course of 4 or 5 cycles.  At the time of application  I have 6 or 7 articles, 30-40 contract archaeology reports, 4-5 presentations at conferences, a 3.8 GPA from the MA program, good letters of rec, 5 years experience as a CRM archaeologist (most of it as a crew chief or above), 700+ verbal, 600+ math, 5-5 for the writing portion (or was it 4 out of 4... don't remember, so long ago).

Never got accept.  Got wait listed once.  Each time, I would call the department to see why I didn't get in and they were never specific.  I would wait a few months into the semester and look at the websites, which usually listed the new graduate students.  A high percentage were straight out of undergrad.

Then, my wife got in to a Ph.D. program on her 2nd try.   Now, I get to pay for one without actually getting one ;)

I would LOVE to bust my ass to try for one of those few positions.  But, they won't even let me in the door.   

Post ID#19326 - replied 2/19/2012 7:07 AM



rkeyo

Moderator
I can say from experience that some of it is luck, but a lot of it is just never giving up. Like most of us, I did migrant labor for a number of years as a field tech, before I finally realized that a graduate degree was absolutely necessary, if I ever wanted to make a decent living at this. By that time, I had a good amount of experience and the beginnings of a publications list. I was 49 when I went back for my BA, and 59 when I got my master's, and believe me, age can be a problem. Especially at the entry level, companies want young people who are less likely to know when they are being taken advantage of. The same goes for PhD programs, though with them it is more that they want grads who will have a long enough career to bring credit and accolades to the school. Thus, the older you are, the more difficult it can be. However, most "archaeologists" don't last 5 years, and by 10, only the serious are left. If you never give up, never surrender, and work hard to be the best you can be, keeping an eye out for opportunities to create your own perfect-fit positions and enhance your value as an employee by acquiring skills, e.g., GIS, Section 106 review, NEPA, eventually you will rise into the upper levels of those applying for jobs. And eventually, someone will make a mistake and hire you, and then you are off and running! So. Don't get discouraged and don't quit.

Post ID#19328 - replied 2/20/2012 1:20 PM



DougRM

@McBain which school was that?

Post ID#19336 - replied 2/21/2012 11:21 AM



McBain05


I am not sure I understand your question, Doug.

I certainly didn't apply to just one school...Probably 6-7 per year of attempt which included 2 cycles before my masters and 4 cycles after my MA.  Give or take.  Some years 5 progams, sometimes as high as 7 or so.  I laminated all my rejection letters and use them as placemats.  I visited every single one (which cost me a couple thousand dollars I didn't have).  After every rejection, I called to find out why and it was the usual platitudes followed by a please try again next year.  I would pursue them and get rejected the next year, too.  More often than not, however, it was a crop of fresh undergrads getting in ahead of me once they posted their students on the website (Alot of schools have stopped doing this).

I got wait listed at UNC once... the other schools ranged across the board from coast to coast.  :) 

I hesitate to be anymore specific, as I do prefer to be as anonymous as possible as my employer is incredibly vindictative and some of the posts here would get me fired (Particularly any mention of the dreaded "U" word).


Point is moot now, though.  I am out of money and can't responsibly pursue it anymore.  And a Field director in CRM don't make much to get out of the hole.  So, I am CRM for life.

Post ID#19337 - replied 2/21/2012 2:20 PM



DougRM

Sorry was confused by the "a" PhD thought you meant singular.  I was really wondering how you could apply 43x. makes more sense this way.

Post ID#19338 - replied 2/21/2012 2:58 PM



Dwarmour

damn Mcbain, I'm surprised you couldn't get a better explanation from Steponitais, I've only met him twice but he seems like he would have been more helpful, especially considering your listed credentials. 

If I was to apply for a grad program it would have been from UNC, I know they are uber competitive but thats ridiculous.

Post ID#19341 - replied 2/21/2012 4:16 PM



McBain05


Well, Vin tends to work with Prehistoric archaeologists more often than not.  While I actually have directed more Prehistoric phase IIIs (9) than historic ones (5), I am technically an historic archaeologist.  ;0

@Doug... Well, internet posts bring out the worst in my typos, misspellings, and grammar miscues. 

Post ID#19374 - replied 2/26/2012 11:42 AM



lasdar

"eventually, someone will make a mistake and hire you," That's awesome Ryeko.  
I've actually felt that way before. I got job once as an environmental firms Only Archaeologist, I was totally under qualified for the position, although I had the knowledge, no MA.  Now I have 13 years experience, am in grad school for a MA in GIS, and my class mates are all newbies with no job experiences, and a complete inability to express themselves coherently in type. This was my third attempt at grad school admittance in 10 years. I have no idea why the other schools (including my Alma mater) wouldn't take me, but this school jumped at me. I would have loved to pursue my MA in Historic Archaeology, but is seems GIS is much more advantageous for the sector of CRM I tend to find myself in.
 I have  several friends who are PhD profs in various fields all over the world, all of them agree that the quality of undergrad students is declining, and the students know less and less, and are applying themselves less. Employers I know keep complaining that the recent graduates (younger crowd) don't know how to do their jobs and have no initiative.  So what I want to know is what is up with the schools discriminating in favor of admitting young people who don't know shit and don't actually want to learn? 

(c)1996-2011, archaeologyfieldwork.com

Visit our Employment Network websites: archaeologyfieldwork.com - architecturalhistoryjobs.com - cooloutdoorjobs.com - environmentaljobresource.com - geojobsonline.com - museumjobsonline.com - paleojobs.com - sciencegeekjobs.com

For information on advertising on this website, contact webmaster@archaeologyfieldwork.com